In Chapter 11 of 11 in his 2010 interview with Capture Your Flag host Erik Michielsen, East African venture capitalist and conservation investor Josep Oriol details the economic and cultural challenges putting a sustainable East African conservation industry in place. A macroeconomic divide exists, specifically a gap between the limited present value of wildlife conservation and the future value calculated by including inputs such as tourism and biodiversity enabled growth. Oriol highlights the tension between for-profit and non-profit organization leadership on establishing a conservation strategy and the negative impact the discord has on sub Saharan Africa's future economic growth and development.